i was only following orders

officer." You can't shoot an unarmed civilian, that goes against your principles. The Court of Military Appeals held that "the justification for acts done pursuant to orders does not exist if the order was of such a nature that a man of ordinary sense and understanding would know it to be illegal." Masks essential wear two. Cool.. Its amazing how you can try and try to get something, not even come close, and then all of a sudden it clicks and all goes well.. Holocaust survivors and their families in Israel today will readily affirm their solemn pledge, Never again!. DWP figures also show that some2,380 people have died after being found fit for work and losing benefits. All Rights Reserved, Disclaimer| Site Map| Privacy Policy |Business Development Solutions by FindLaw, part of Thomson Reuters, Wills, Trusts, Estate Planning and Administration. In trials of Nazi leaders at Nuremberg, many . Place yourself in the boots of a citizen in Germany, 1940. Similar arguments with respect to UK Service Law and Queen's Regulations are also being made. Providing Legal Services For More Than 125 Years, On Behalf of Hamblett & Kerrigan, P.A. If these new benefit cuts come in, there is only 1 thing that will happen and that is the end of the world, simple reason is people will be made homeless because they cant afford to live in their homes so then they will be homeless, they reckon this figure will be as much as 500,000 British people and families, crime will then sky rocket and if 500,000 plus are made homeless where are they supposed to live, this will then cause major health problems and with the NHS as it is it wont be able to handle this, imagine now if just 1 person living on the streets from benefit cuts was to get seriously ill then it would spread like wildfire, imagine if this was an incurable disease then the Nhs could not then cope with this medical epidemic this would then turn into a pandemic and if this could not be cured this would either go world wide or Britain would then have to be destroyed and nuked from the earth in order to stop this from spreading. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/how-the-nazis-defense-of-just-following-orders-plays-out-in-the-mind, criticize the famous electric-shock study. Following the Nuremburg Trials, it became clear that the excuse, "I was only following orders" was an area that needed both clarification and elimination. This was not the case with all of the guards in concentration camps, but it was the situation for many. Private England said worse things than those shown in the photographs took place in Abu Ghraib prison. To develop a sense of group cohesion. Not everyone disregards history. Healing items are your best immediate way to heal, camping also heals you but it passes time and only heals you for 10%, same with resting at the gym. Adolf Eichmann, a Nazi S.S. colonel, stands trial inside a bulletproof booth in a Jerusalem court in 1961. Rod Powers was a retired Air Force First Sergeant with 22 years of active duty service. But I heard something familiar from my past: A series of orders meant to condition people to unthinking obedience. Argument: I was only following orders" an acceptable defense? Milgrams studies rested on a deception: Participants were instructed to administer severe shocks to an actor, who in fact merely feigned being shocked, Haggard said. As our government continues down this slippery slope, it is very likely that law enforcement personnel and American citizens will find themselves caught on opposing sides of a constitutional and moral dilemma. People had passed him and thought that he was asleep. The Nuremberg Defense refers to a legal strategy employed by many of the defendants at the Nuremberg war crimes trials seeking to convict Nazi perpetrators of war crimes and crimes against humanity committed during the Second World War. Pretty simple reasoning, if this person is in the military and ordered to do something the punishment for disobeying orders is/was often death. The legal precedent set by the Nuremberg Principle IV states: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him." For example, on February 8th, 2019, YouTube[2] user Etheral Snake posted a humorous video titled "Thomas was only following orders" in which Thomas the Tank Engine, a defendant during the Nuremberg trials, recollects serving as a train delivering Jews to the Nazi concentration camps during the World War II. Hinzman and his supporters argued that because the war in Iraq may be in breach of international law, it could possibly end with him and other troops being tried for war crimes. Everything2 is brought to you by Everything2 Media, LLC. Fire hundreds of nurses and techs who refuse vaccination. The defence of I was obeying orders is not valid if those orders command an illegal act - like murder. You are to be supervising the inmates' work on aircraft. [7] Reddit I was just following orders for gods sake! The term is now essentially synonymous with the phrase "I was only following orders", a phrase that has been used in defending accused war criminals for centuries. involved in the inquiry, writes in his autobiography that many of the officers and even senior NCOs - the "backbone of the armed forces" - were in many cases just filling dead men's shoes, given their rank purely because there was a requirement for someone to fill the position. I rose to the rank of corporal but was a squad leader. Left: My point in this is that all those involved in the concentration camps of Nazi Germany were not war criminals, benign or otherwise, but were simply boys forced into cooperation with the Nazi war machine. Column right march. Can you suggest a solution to the troubling increase in the use of presidential executive orders? The various other courts-martial considered the troops' defence - that they were "only following orders" - in the light of UCMJ. A private soldier was permitted the defence I had to do it or I would have been shot. The Nuremberg Trials are most notable for the unsuccessful use of the I was only following orders legal defense. Generals and high ranking SS officers had the ability to resist or water down orders (even if just some) that were immoral. According to Milgrams experiments, 65 percent of his volunteers, described as teachers, were willing (sometimes reluctantly) to press a button that delivered shocks up to 450 volts to an unseen person, a learner in another room. I led my squad in manual of arms and close-order drill, which taught us three things:1. The UCMJ actually protects the soldier in this situation as he/she has a moral and legal obligation to the Constitution and not to obey unlawful orders and the people who issue them. Right face. Unfortunately (for them), that defense doesn't fly. If someone goes above and beyond the orders instilling excessive cruelty in that case I would agree that they should be charged. Column right march. Haggard said his teams findings do not legitimate the Nuremberg defense and that anyone who claims they were just following orders ought to be viewed with skepticism. This excuse was used by the Nazi war criminals at the post World War II Nuremberg Trials. To march in a military manner. In the first experiment, he said participants an agent and a victim took turns delivering mild shocks or inflicting a financial penalty on each other. In United States v. Keenan, the accused (Keenan) was found guilty of murder after he obeyed an order to shoot and kill an elderly Vietnamese citizen. Haggards team also used a questionnaire in the second experiment to get explicit judgments from the volunteers, who explained they felt less responsible when they acted under orders. Construct an argument (e.g., detailed outline, poster, essay) that discusses the compelling question using specific claims and relevant evidence from historical sources while acknowledging competing views. His legal practice includes counseling businesses and individuals on a variety of legal issues and advocating on their behalf. A September 4th, 2019, repost[5] by Redditor wasp12313 in /r/HistoryMemes received over 2,700 upvotes. The duty and obligation to obey lawful orders creates no grey area for discussion. Masks not useful. Women's Violence Prevention Act (South Korea), https://www.icc-cpi.int/nr/rdonlyres/ea9aeff7-5752-4f84-be94-0a655eb30e16/0/rome_statute_english.pdf, https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Nuremberg_defense&oldid=2385274, Pages using DynamicPageList parser function. Notice the oath states, I will obey the orders of the President of the United States,but the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) Article 90 states that military personnel need to obey the "lawful orders of his/her superior. In both cases - and in others - the emphasis is on lawful orders only. One would have to establish that not following said orders would result in immediate serious bodily injury or death (or a reasonable fear of such) and that there was no reasonable way to avoid following the orders or alternative course of action available. Court will convene at 9:30 a.m. The first recorded case of a United States Military officer using the "I was only following orders" defense dates back to 1799. On March 29, 1971, Calley was convicted of premeditated murder and sentenced to life in prison. Large gatherings forbidden. Literally Media Ltd. Although he was denied refugee status, one Justice presiding over the case stated, in reference to personal responsibility during wartime: This has, however, long been the established rule for questions of the legality of war. That is, when people act under orders, they seem to experience less agency over their actions and outcomes than when they choose for themselves, Haggard said. Doctors are independent professionals. Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) outlines the crime of willful disobedience by a military member a superior commissioned officer. In the brave new world ushered in by the Nazis, evil is done not in any personal, clean way, if such is ever possible, with unquestioned responsibility; now it is carried out in a bureaucratic manner--nameless functionaries following meaningless orders, just more cogs in a machine of evil. Therefore, do not automatically issue a mental guilty conviction to a person whose defense is "I was only following orders". But, our study does suggest that this claim might potentially correspond to the basic experience that the person had of their action at the time, Haggard said. Possibly the most famous ever study in social psychology was published 50 years ago by Stanley Milgram (1933 - 1984) in which he claimed to demonstrate that ordinary people would perform extraordinary acts of torture in blind obedience to . Are we as free-thinking as we assume? In 1957, the Israeli legal system established the concept of a 'blatantly illegal order' to explain when a military (or security-related) order should be followed, and when it must not be followed. Now, are these boys war criminals or are they too a sort of victim of the Nazi system? He was sanctioned, and without warm clothes and very little food he fell asleep on the streets and never woke up. Article 33 of the Rome Statute,[2] which established the International Criminal Court, allows the Nuremberg defense to relieve an individual of criminal responsibility provided: This principle, one of many drawn up in the run up to the Nuremberg trials, states: Nuremberg Principle IV was disputed in Canada when Jeremy Hinzman attempted to claim refugee status there after deserting the US army. [2] YouTube Thomas was only following orders. Shortage of health care workers, import more. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Scan this QR code to download the app now. I enjoyed barking orders more than I enjoyed following them. states that the Serviceman is to obey the "lawful command of his superior Law enforcement personnel become the face of cruelty and tyranny as they are required to enforce edicts both they and the people know are illegal and immoral. A books, movies, and more blog from the staff at the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh - Main. A jury found Murdaugh guilty of murdering his wife and son. To be a hero requires courage in the face of adversity. Vaccine protection durable. Vaccine protective, return to normal. Since 2010 the Tories have killed over 250,000 claimants & starved and made homeless millions more! They are legislating by executive decree, ignoring restrictions on constitutional authority, putting our national economy and personal financial futures at enormous risk, and imposing laws and penalties on citizens without due process. The truth is about to finally hit the fan and this corrupt nazi Tory government will never be able to come back from their sickening disgusting acts that they are performing on the most invulnerable British people who are being deliberately targeted and treated like criminals and like we are pond life when we should be treated with care and compassion, a disabled person who is ruled as to be to sick to work needs help and care and compassion, we do not deserve to be victimized and treated like criminals, its not our choice to be disabled, its not something that we planned on for a career, sick and disabled people should never be treated the way that we are now, it is clear to me that this government and especially IDS mass murderer of the disabled thinks it is ok to continue his sick work of culling off and persecuting the sick and disabled in Britain, it is high time that IDS, the corrupt DWP and this government were all charged and prosecuted for the sick and twisted crimes that have been deliberately targeted at the sick and the disabled. Doctors are independent professionals. The purpose of Think Left is to present a view of politics from a left-wing perspective. I'm only following Hollywood's lead. Die Verarbeitung des Produkts erfolgt nur auf Bestellung des Kunden hin. Can you convict those who follows orders for the sake of their own life? Duncan Smiths attacks on the most vulnerable in society are being undertaken on the basis of the Tory support for austerity which is one of the greatest ever confidence tricks perpetuated on the British public. The person was under a legal obligation to obey orders of the Government or the superior in question; The person did not know that the order was unlawful; and. In particular, acting under orders caused participants to perceive a distance from outcomes that they themselves caused, said study co-author Patrick Haggard, a cognitive neuroscientist at University College London, in an email. Since PTSD is a mental condition, it renders people unable to assume full responsibility for their own actions. Period. However, the claim, "I was only following . All it takes to become a victim is compliance. Some heard an endless series of self-contradictions and unapologetic 180-degree reversals. For those like Adolf Eichmann or Josef Mengele, that response is hardly viable. I was only following orders, a defense that fails in earthly courts, will most assuredly also fail in the highest court of all. . Subscribe to Here's the Deal, our politics newsletter. For Byron, it was a psychological necessity to put pen, or quill, to paper in order to exorcise the ever-proliferating denizens of his mind; an eviction notice to all thoughts that they must go out The main argument for defense, as themusic mentions in hir writeup and the node title subtly gives away, was "I was only following orders.". While Hitler himself and some of his inner circle committed suicide in Berlin, some of the Nazi leaders involved in the Holocaust and other crimes against humanity stood trial in Nuremberg after the end of World War II. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. In a second experiment, the team explored whether the loss of agency could also be seen in the brain activity of subjects. More simply, Haggard described the phenomenon as flipping a switch (action) to turn on a light (external outcome). Dan. William Reville January 9, 2014. Squad halt. Your email address will not be published. The oligarchs must then impose authoritarian and increasingly brutal measures to maintain control. Online, the caption "I was just following orders* has been utilized in ironic memes, particularly in those in which various characters are edited into the photographs of 1945-1946 Nuremberg trials. My sister ordered the day before just to be sure they didn't sell out . A December 5th, 2019, Cheems meme posted by Redditor[7] baconater419 received over 14,700 upvotes in /r/dogelore (shown below, right). Article 91 covers willful disobedience of a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer. I Was Just Following Orders, also known as the Nuremberg Defence, refers to a plea in a court of law used by persons not to be held guilty for actions ordered by their superiors. Evil never sleeps. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Joe Halewood writes about tenant and welfare wrongs, short stories, comment, articles, humour and photography, "The economy doesn't work like most people think it works! Be very afraid. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. ET for the sentencing for Alex Murdaugh. This isn't a dress rehearsal for totalitarianism, it is totalitarianism. Although pleas from the unknown person could be heard, including mentions of a heart condition, Milgrams study said his volunteers continued to shock the learner when ordered to do so. Calley wound up spending 3 1/2 years under house arrest atFort Benning, Georgia, where a federal judge ultimately ordered his release. Cookie Notice . I've used the example of the defense used at the Nuremberg war tribunal after World War II because this defense is mostly known through those trials and their defendants. In this test, the agent can shock or take money from the victim, either acting on orders or by their own choice. Joshua Barajas It has doubtless prevented people since the War from following illegal orders. Your email address will not be published. For Lewis, these primeval moral platitudes constitute a kind of moral inheritance of fundamental truths that are a basic part of human nature. Your conscience tells you that you shouldn't be working these facilities for the Third Reich - it's immoral! They are also bound by separate Queen's Regulations (QRs), with some articles being joint (applicable to the Royal Navy, Royal Marines, Army and Royal Air Force equally). In this test, the agent is not under the watchful gaze of an authority figure. Forward march. The changing relative values of violence, strength, and mental ability required different guidelines to ensure acceptable behavior in a group setting. With profound regret, we must admit that "I was only following orders" works just as well in America as it did in Nazi Germany. Evil grown so pervasive, so ordinary, no one notices it anymore. The three Services are bound by different acts, including the Air Force (Constitution) Act 1919, the Air Force Act 1955, the Naval Discipline Act 1955, the Army Act 1955, the Military Code 1883 and the Armed Forces Act 1993. In the Uniform Code of Military Justice, there is discussion concerning lawful versus unlawful orders, a critical distinction that is difficult or even impossible to define. So help me God". If a low ranking soldier or officer is told that the building is full of insurgents and is ordered to attack it, and later it turns out it's a school, and there are 30 dead kids before the mistake is realized, is following orders a valid defense? Military discipline and effectiveness are built on a foundation of obedience to orders. To obey orders without thinking. Large gatherings no problem. The reality is austerity under the behest of civil servants following orders, kills the poorest whilst the pockets of the wealthiest get fatter. "We were only following orders" will not be accepted as an excuse. With profound regret, we must admit that "I was only following orders" works just as well in America as it did in Nazi Germany. But thanks for taking the time to comment anyway. Depending on your needs, and what is already implemented in your solution, you might need to create a data context class.A data context class provides a connection to the database and maps database objects to C# classes. Column left march. The U.S. Supreme Court held that Navy commanders "act at their own peril" when obeying presidential orders when such orders are illegal. So now, many of these people see nothing wrong with Australia's army-enforced lockdown. So I recognized what was going on with the pandemic. Nashua Office:20 Trafalgar SquareSuite 505Nashua, NH 03063, Portsmouth Office:155 Fleet StreetPortsmouth, NH 03801, 2023 Hamblett & Kerrigan, P.A. The Economic Crisis: How Did We GetHere? To obey orders without thinking. The Vietnam War presented the United States military courts with more cases of the "I was only following orders" defense than any previous conflict. | Apr 10, 2019 | Employment Law. How can a judge fairly say that because you didn't want to die or be punished and did your job we will now punish/kill you? This is modified by the fact that under QRs personnel are specifically forbidden to commit any war crimes under any circumstances. A platoon from 11th Brigade, led by First Lieutenant William Calley, herded 327 old men, women and children - even babies - from the Vietnamese hamlet of My Lai into a ditch and shot them all dead. The process worked. I went through four years of ROTC in high school and college. Consider their situation and the extent of their free will, first. The first major UCMJ-related incident following Nuremburg was during inquiries and subsequent courts-martial following the My Lai Massacre of 16 March, 1968. Right face. Not only should an unlawful order not be obeyed, obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution. That defense was first used in a 1799 naval blockade case and subsequently has been used in military cases related to the Vietnam War more often than in any other conflict. Privacy. Right shoulder arms. Haggard said they used moderately painful, but tolerable, shocks. Milgram feigned shocks up to 450 volts. But, following her lawyer's advice, she did not give details. However, if it can be found that policy-makers are pushing or forcing subordinates to act unjustly in war, they can be responsible for that as well. I work with the homeless now in my community trying to find a way to do positive things with the rest of my life. newsletter for analysis you wont find anywhereelse. Not everyone disregards the past. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Generally, employees are liable for their own wrongful acts irrespective of whether or not they were doing so at the bequest of their boss. They envy China's forcible vaccinations. Starting in early September 2019, TheFebrezeWizard's post received viral spread online. Imagine numerous scenarios in which law enforcement personnel are ordered to enforce laws that both they and you know are unconstitutional and morally wrong. I went through four years of ROTC in high school and college. They also obey orders at their own risk. He died of hypothermia. Masks not useful. Right face. Reblogged this on perfectlyfadeddelusions. Researchers measured a small, but significant increase in the perceived time between a persons action and outcome when coercion was involved. Both the phrase "I was just following orders" and the Nuremberg trials saw usage in memes prior to September 2019. Under New Hampshire law, if an employee does not have a contract she is an employee-at-will which means generally she can be fired or quit, with or without cause and/or notice unless that firing results in a state or federal statutory violation. This non-excuse became infamous during the Nuremberg Trials after World War II. These have to be strong examples of a direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ and not the military members own opinion. In other cases, the experimenter looked away, while the agent acted on their own volition. The defense I was only following orders is sometimes referred to as the Nuremberg defense. Medication may be game-changer, wait for it. In some cases, a third person an experimenter sat in the room and gave orders on whether to inflict harm. booster. Military members disobey orders at their own risk. Military members failing to obey lawful orders issued by their superiors risk serious consequences. The United States Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20) The time between the action and its outcome is typically experienced as a simultaneous event. Relationships in human groups during prehistoric times were most likely based on physical attributes similar to those found in animal packs. Last week Showtime announced that "Billions," its drama about hedge fund egomaniacs, will be spawning several spinoffs. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Is there a basic moral law that defines and governs human interaction? A true retrospective examination of mankinds past, however, teaches us a valuable lesson. This site requires JavaScript to run correctly. A data context class can be created manually by you, or when you're using Entity Framework (EF), you can generate a data context class . The tamer skill where you walk to heal HP/MP is good if you want free healing, but you have to waste some time by walking around doing nothing. J. Daniel Marr is a Director and Shareholder at Hamblett & Kerrigan, P.A. In other words, people actually feel disconnected from their actions when they comply with orders, even though theyre the ones committing the act. The public policy exception to the employee-at-will doctrine prohibits from an employer in bad terminating an employee because she refused to do something public policy would discourage or did something public policy would encourage. The problem, really, is who are you ultimately accountable to. Refusing to follow the illegal directive of the employer could fall into that public policy exception and the employee may also have some protection under certain whistleblower statutes that the employee can discuss with an employment attorney. the Geneva Conventions. Medication may be game-changer, wait for it. The just following orders defense, made famous in the post-WWII Nuremberg trials, featured heavily in Eichmanns court hearings. Once the order's shipping information is generated, we send another email with tracking information. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Not voting Tory is a start! During the War with France, Congress passed a law making it permissible to seize ships bound for any French Port. Covid not spread person-to-person. They said that when an individual follows an order that is illegal under international law, he is responsible for that choice, except under certain circumstances. For more information, please see our 2007-2023 So spreading a big lie like Nazi Germany should be avoided, and the lying sycophants of the disgraced, twice impeached insurrection at should be removed from any positions of authority to avoid going down a path of killing people of a different ethnic background. I would say that the person who signed the order should be the one punished. The latest news on WordPress.com and the WordPress community. And now, lawyers for some of the Army reservists charged with abusing prisoners in Iraq say they're innocent for the same reason. Joshua Barajas. Sometimes a soldier doesn't have a complete picture of what is going on. The military court rejected Calley's argument of obeying the order of his superiors. The order was not manifestly unlawful. Large gatherings forbidden. Thus the argument, "I was only following orders" became difficult to prove - no-one was really sure who was competent enough to give orders, nor of the mental state (considering post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)) of those who followed them. Its difficult to ascertain whether participants are really deceived or not in such situations., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU-rlInny6Q, Video by YouTube user Charles Ewing Smith. It is time to break the cycle. There are numerous moral codes found in recorded human history: Jewish, Christian, Roman, Old Norse, Greek, Babylonian, and American Indian to name a few. The story you are about to read is one that has been, for the last 70 years, left to wither in the hearts of those few who recall it. Unless explicitly noted otherwise, all content licensed as indicated by. Yes, there were ruthless killers among them that thrived on the opportunity provided them by the government. When government rules with the consent of the governed and is bound by the universal moral code, the rights of each individual, even a minority of one, are secured and protected. His friend who lived on the streets with him had been sanctioned after being taken off the sickness benefits that he was on and was put on Job seekers Allowance. Management and the owners should further realize that if an employee is willing to assist in doing a bad act against someone else that employee could later turn on management or the owners with a similar nefarious act. History teaches that "I was only following orders" is not a good defense.

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