what size lionel transformer do i need

To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. If you want a spur track to store an extra car or two, Lionel makes another expansion set [#12044] that does just that: Note that this set includes one switch which is the track section that makes the track diverge onto two separate routes. Most command systems use a constant AC power supply, and trains are controlled by impulses sent through the rails. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. In the middle range, Lionel made a lot of other transformers. By continuing to use this site, you indicate you accept these terms. Actually it was a train show with varied trains of all different eras being run I have mostly MTH trains though and they wouldn't run because the transformer that was running wasn't powerful enough to cycle through my MTH trainsounds. Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. Faq No: 1029 Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. The Lionel 1033 can be used for small or medium-sized layouts. The modern equivalent is the Lionel CW-80, but frankly I like the old ones better. For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. If you like, tell us more about yourself. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon If mixing both non-command as well as command engines, both by the way will run without any thing other than the appropriate transformer, it really depends on the budget. Lionels HO Gauge items are back! The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. Do not use this device if water is present. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. And of course, Lionel also makes lots of figures to populate your town. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. Hello All: Another simple way of doing it, Only load the transformer to 75% of it's capacity, or take your total load & multiply by 125% for proper transformer sizing. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. Are you running command or conventional? 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. the amount of track is not what is important here. If they do, follow their recommendations. Sign-up for email today! Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. The transformer included with your starter set should be adequate to handle a modest expansion of your train set discussed above. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. electronically controlled outputs. If you have a starter set and have had thoughts like this, youre not alone. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. OTTS Founder All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. Like tankist stated.It's only running multiple engines that I run into issues. Sell Your Trains Yourself On eBay. Extending the Reach of Your Power (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. Although not necessarily a mandated standard, white, black and or red are used for track power on most layouts - if for no other reason than these colors are easiest to find. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. Price Received. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. Enter your e-mail address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail. The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. The whistle requires more power than the outfits that don't have it. Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. You must be signed in to continue. Model train power falls into one of three categories. Hello, I'm new to this site, and completely new to toy trains also - so please pardon my ignorance! (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer. Effort. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. Lionel Trains Pocket Price Guide 1901-2022. Reverse the above if planning to run mostly Lionel and go with the Lionel command system, either the full Legacy system or the upcoming CAB-1L and just add a Track Power Controller and a cable to run most MTH engines in conventional with the Lionel systems. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. The polarities can be reversed to change the direction of the train. There are a few standards when it comes to the color-coding. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. But it is important to take a close look at the cars to make sure that they are a good match for your set. "What size wire should I use?" Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. The preferred choice for wiring control panels is telephone or telecommunications wire. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, Wire Gauge Standards for Model Train Layouts, Model Train Track Grades and Maximum Grade Issues. While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. If you have to ask,your needs are a lot more modest than that. Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. It does not work with O27. The Lionel Track & Power catalog is BACK with the latest information for more ways to make your layout even bigger, better and more powerful! Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. Although it will not have any impact on the performance of the wire within, choosing multiple colors of wire, and standardizing on a specific color for each function, will go a long way in making your wiring easier to install and easier to detect flaws later on. This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. If you fried a wire going to the track it may not be a transformer problem. My question is.how big of a transformer will I need to power this thing? Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. I recently acquired a beautiful Lionel NH Alco 420. What size Lionel transformer do I need? However, if you begin adding more than 1 or 2 cars, be sure to get some extra track, or your longer train will be chasing its tail very quickly. Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. Turn on the throttle, then short the A and U posts (in the case of Lionel) or variable and base posts (in the case of Flyer) with a screwdriver or a piece of wire for a maximum of five seconds. It is 5" long. Transformer sizing for new systems These can all have uses for your layout. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. The CW-80 is a nice little transformer, has accessory output as well,but as you have stated you will outgrow the CW-80 pretty quick. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a . I bet they would be great for running lights and unloading the main transformer. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. Transformers are sized by determining the total load required (in amps). These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. Lionel Rolling Stock Identification Guide. There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. Then power every other one with one of your smaller transformers. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. In most cases, because we are dealing with relatively low voltage and amperage and in a normally stable temperature and humidity climates, our wiring does not require any extra insulation. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. There are many advantages in repairing or reconditioning your transformers. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail). Understanding the difference is important in getting the right power supply for your needs. In some cases. If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. Not really a how-to-build-a-layout book, but it is a good general introduction to the hobby full of interesting stuff. The iconic and legendary 270-wattLionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. For safety reasons, the batteries were soon replaced by a 110 volt transformer. Our community is FREE to join. Yes, but the train will probably run too fast, depending on the output voltage of the transformer. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Best Selling Lionel 1908080 O Gauge CW80 Transformers - Black (4) $147.85 New $110.00 Used Lionel Legacy Powermaster Lnl637146 (13) $134.99 New $90.00 Used Lionel 634120 TMCC Direct Lock-On Transformer - Silver (21) $58.99 New $49.99 Used Classic Toy Trains magazine offers information about toy trains operating and collecting, toy train product news and reviews, toy train layout tips, toy train layout designs and track plans, and more. Lots of good information for building any size O Gauge layout. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. Never had a problem. What do I need to do that with? 24v, 120v, 208v, 240v, 480v, and 600v). The 1033 is not the same as the 1044. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. Electric Trains make great power supplies, depending on usage, on a DCS controlled layout. I thought an ENGINEER was the guy driving the train? Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. Three conductor wire is common for household use. This wire is very fine and can be found in many color combinations. Ive talked more about the KW here. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. In either case, however, voltage and amperage draw is low and peak for only brief periods. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. Number 26 to 20 wire (depending on the length of your bus) will be sufficient for most applications. :-). They are fun to have. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. A. Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. Lionel 1033 90 watt Transformer Postwar from 1950s-60s Whistle, Direction. These transformers are much cheaper than they were even just a few years ago, but that just makes them a bigger bargain today. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. I really doubt you will need more than that. CW80 Transformer. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. Mike to the forum. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. What does a Lionel transformer do? The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. We use a ZW 275 and a KW on this, so 405 watts. With two switches, you can create an alternative route for your trains.

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